Culture Focused Practice

Hey. Hey, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper here, and you are listening to the Culture Focused Practice Podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming back. Welcome.

This is an owner's room special. I love the owner's room. I love being able just to riff.

For those who are new here. This is the space. Basically where I just pause the teaching and I talk about the messy human, personal in between process, parts of leadership.

It's not, I'm not teaching you, there's no bulleted items, there's no content to cover, there's no list. All I have are prompts, basically. And in today's case, I also have a scenario for you.

So today we're focusing on what happens when your practice technically is fine. You know, there's good team, there's smooth systems, there's not any major fires, but you sort of start to feel like you don't really fit.

This isn't yours anymore. Maybe you've grown or you've evolved. Maybe your energy is just totally shifted for, you know, because it's going well, your energy has shifted elsewhere, or life circumstances, and potentially it just doesn't feel like yours. Nothing is crashing. You are not crashing, but you're just not lit up anymore.

So let's talk about the, I would say, silent signs that you're sort of outgrowing what you created, and I can only share from me like that's what this is.

Hopefully some of this resonates with you, and I think there's a lot of universality in being a group practice owner, even though we have our own distinct flavors for doing it. I think we all go through very similar experiences with regard to certain aspects of it.

So there's not any set agenda I, other than I have a few key prompts that I've queued up for myself.

I don't spend any time thinking about these, just so you know. I highlight ones that I think are awesome and then I just go.

So this is not, this is not planned or scripted. I don't have any certain things that I know that I'm going to say to you because I have forgotten the questions that I highlighted already, but I will say that I added a scenario because I had a listener say that she really liked the Culture Lab episodes, which is where I would take real life scenarios and I would bring them to life.

So I was hoping to marry the owner's room with one scenario, like one culture's lab scenario. So we'll see how it goes.

I'm gonna do the prompts first, and then we'll get into the scenario last.

Okay. So again, this is when you're outgrowing the thing that you build. Ugh. I hate that space, man.

Oh shit. Before I go further, make sure you subscribe and sign up for the EOS Mastermind. Doors open soon and a couple spots are already taken. So go to www.taravossenkemper.com/eos-mastermind and you can sign up for the wait list there.

All right. Prompt number one, what version of you built this thing and how different is that person from who you are now? And sort of a related question is, what parts of your identity are tangled up in being the one who built this?

Fuck. I really started myself off, man. That is such an interesting question.

I think probably, if I'm being totally honest, a more idealistic version of myself, a more ignorant version of myself, also.

I don't mind idealism if I think that's the right word. Um, but I was not grounded in reality and, along those lines, maybe I shouldn't have been in order to get this going.

I just went ham. Like I went all in. I'm doing this. Let's go. Had I known that I would feel the way that I felt at certain points throughout the process, I would've probably done it differently. How differently, I don't know. My husband and I get into this a little bit because he is way more likely to sit back and wait to do something.

I'm way more likely just to take off full sprint. Like I'm gone, like, let's go. You know? And I'm like sprinting forward, especially if my mind is made up and I've gone through my own internal process to the extent that I can, at the time that I'm starting something, I'm, I'm off, you know?

And so it's funny because I can't, I'm, I'm just, I, God, I don't love this quality in myself. Like I, I wish that it was different. I wish I was able to do the thing where people can project or forecast how they're going to feel about something. I cannot, I absolutely unequivocally am not able to do that.

And so when I start something, what I trust is myself in the process. I know that I'm gonna know how I feel as I'm going and whether or not something is working.

I can't anticipate how I'm going to feel. I have 0% awareness of how I'm going to feel in the future because there's so many different variables. How do you know how you're gonna feel? I don't fucking know. Some people are good at that. I'm not good at that.

So my point is, I think a little bit that I wish I would've been more realistic and less idealistic potentially about how quickly things would scale or how easy it would be to do.

Or it's not that hard. You just need this paperwork and blah, blah, blah. Like. Yeah, bitch. Uh, okay. Like that's what I wanna say to myself. Like, okay, Uhhuh, good job, Tara. That's exactly all you need. That's well done. You know, poor little Tara, she didn't know. She just didn't know. You know?

But also, I could not have anticipated how I would feel, and it required me going through it in order to make the changes needed to get to where things are today.

And I don't mean to do that, like toxic positivity or like, so it's, it all worked out in the end. That's not what, I mean, what I mean is that, um, it's kind of a moot point to say I wish I would've known because I couldn't have known, because I'm not the person who's ever gonna know how I'm gonna feel until I'm actually in something.

How else I'm different though is I am way more confident in my leadership and ability to set and see boundaries and systems. I'm not good at maintaining them long term because that really gets into like maintenance of systems, which is boring as fuck, but I'm good at clarifying them and I am good at, I just feel much more competent now than I did when I very first started.

And I think a lot of us, again, I, I said something about universality and the process of group practice ownership. I think something that seems almost universal, at least for a lot of people that I interact with, and a lot of threads that I read are people almost questioning their ability to be the boss, you know, to be the one that makes decisions or takes up space.

That was for sure a process and so that's something very different now compared to then. So had I had even a modicum of that, I would've established more firm boundaries from the outset than I did with regard to a variety of things like how we show up and expectations, but also values and finances and just so many, so many things.

Again, the related piece to this is what parts of your identity are tangled up in being the one who built this? I, that is such a good question. I don't know. I don't think that.

Hmm. What feels tangled up in this for me is that it remains clean and integrity driven. That's what feels tangled up, and my fear is that by stepping away, that gets lost. So it's not like the practice where I'm like, it's my face with the practice. That's not the thing for me.

The thing is, how do I ensure that if I step away, it still is as particular and thorough and intentional as it is when I look at it and I can see this is a gap, oh no, we need to do this. Oh, hang on a second. Where do our values live? Right here?

My fear is that if I step away, nobody will have eyes in the same way that I do. And not that it wouldn't go well, so it's not even to say that without me in the mix more it, it's gonna tank. I don't think that at all.

I think it'll still be incredible. But I do think there's something around my angle and view and presence and probably some of the values that ground me as a leader still influence the presentation, so to speak, of the group.

So I'm not sure if that is, I'm not trying to cop out with that answer, but that is the best that I have. It's less about identity and more about is it gonna remain standing with the same intense level of like depth and attunement and integrity. Like that's, that's the stuff that comes up for me. So.

Alright, I'm gonna keep going. Prompt number two. Where are you staying because you should not because you want to. Related question, is fulfillment a good enough reason to change course?

Uh, why do I hit myself with these questions? Hmm. I don't know if this is the right answer to the language of that question.

I stay doing payroll, and part of that is I have shame around financial stuff. It's just there. I don't, I don't even know it. It's like. always, whether we're doing well, whether I have a shit month, it's just ugh, there's like shame around finances and I haven't done a lot of digging.

That would actually be interesting to do some like EMDR or some meditation around because I haven't really dug much into it.

But my point in saying that is it makes me feel a little nauseous to hand over payroll to anybody else. That's how I feel. So I don't even necessarily think that I'm doing payroll because I should, I'm doing it because there is shame around finances for whatever fucking reason.

Don't come at me. I don't have an answer for you yet. I'm happy to dig into it, but it's there and it plays a part and my team knows this, like even doing something like including gross revenue on the scorecard. When we first started doing L10 meetings and we had a scorecard, I almost balked at gross revenue.

I never wanted people to see that number and think that I was exploiting or taking advantage or pocketing all this money or like that made me feel kind of sick, like, ugh. And so it's sort of constantly there.

The scorecard piece and the gross revenue piece in particular is much less a thing now. Like once it's out there, it's out there. But my point is like my team knows about some of my reluctance and resistance and I think they know also that there's like shame wrapped up in this.

This is funny actually. Like I think some people feel shame if they're like not living out leadership or they can't approach conflict, or they're struggling with a clinical director or something like that. I don't have a lot of shame in my life. I just, I don't really have a lot of shame in my life.

And so I think that, actually, if I go back to question one, I think maybe some of the identity piece is this financial thing.

I think there's something around if my business isn't profiting a set amount, am I really a good practice owner? Am I really good at group practice ownership? I think there's something there, and also wanting to always give more to my team, and then it becomes okay, at what cost? Like when does this, at what point does hitting the bottom line? Or if we're scaling to grow in my opex, my operating expenses are much higher than what might be standard that's gonna look bad for my profit margin.

So I think actually it's funny now that I'm talking, it seems like the finances and sort of my, uh, maybe not identity, but like my shame with regard to finances and group practice ownership. These things all like cluster together, almost like factor analysis. They all sort of cluster together. I don't know what that latent variable is yet. I don't know what the, the theme is necessarily, but that is something I'm mentally noting, like, oh yeah, but you need to get into this, you need to, you need to dig a little more.

So I'm, I'm interested to gain some more insight into myself with regard to that being in particular.

The related question to this was, is fulfillment a good enough reason to change course?

I have two answers. My grounded self would say, fuck yeah, it is. Absolutely, it is. What is life about? If not making meaning and trying to pursue fulfillment?

Not in an nihilistic way, you know, not in a, um, ego-driven me first. I'm gonna get everything I want sort of way. But in a grounded, thoughtful, again, I say meaning making values driven way. Why wouldn't fulfillment be enough to change courses?

The less grounded part of me and the one that's a little more, I'll say, insecure around that sort of thing, feels insecure around saying that fulfillment trumps the whole structure. Fulfillment trumps your team. You seeking fulfillment? Is that really enough? Like, who am I to to just pursue a life of fulfillment when my whole team is working still? Who am I to move in this direction when I have my leadership team running the show?

It's like the Marianne Williamson quote that's often misconstrued for Nelson Mandela. As a side note, he got it from her. Our deepest fear is not that we're inadequate, it's that we're powerful beyond measure. There's a line in there where she says something like, who am I to dot, dot, dot?

And it sort of goes from there. That's like the, the thing that is not a constant refrain, but it's something that will pop in my head. It's a part of me that is like. Play small. Wants to stay small, which might seem funny because I take up a lot of space. If you, I just do, I'm so sorry. If you ever meet me in person, just, just mentally, verbally push me back.

Just gimme a big fucking bear hug or a metaphorical one and then take up space with me. I do not care. I love when people take his face with me and I take up a lot. So my point is. It might seem counterintuitive that I have a part that's like small, but I do, I have a part that wants to play small and she wants to make sure every single person is okay and to do that, she can't really move at all.

And so I think there's something in there around, oh, emotional caretaking, probably. Like it's something about, but if I move and I'm pursuing fulfillment, what about everybody else? Am I leaving them behind? Are they gonna be okay? How are they gonna feel? Are they gonna judge me? Are they gonna feel.

Abandoned, are they gonna feel like I don't care about them? Like that's sort of the stuff that comes up. So I say yes and no. Yes, I do think, again, grounded part of me thinks you should be able to pursue a life, pursue the next move that is related to fulfillment and meaning. And maybe my, my small part, my emotional caretaker part is more concerned about the people who are involved in the, the space where she's leaving behind than about her, or I guess big Tara's fulfillment, so to speak.

So, okay, I'm gonna keep going. All right. Prompt number three. How do you sit in the liminal space without rushing to fill it? Not, well, man, I do not do this shit well.

I am, ugh. I hate feeling stuck. I don't like feeling stagnant. I don't like when things are still around me and I can't hear the water moving. Like what? You know, sort of this like loud silence thinking of the Seal song. You know, sometimes silence can be so loud. Yeah. In that liminal space that is loud as fuck.

Uh, so I don't do it well. Hmm. What helps? 'cause I have done it. I'm trying to think real quick. That's not helpful just to say I don't do it. Well, I don't, but lemme think about what helps. Actually physical movement helps. So ironically enough being in nature and physical movement.

And I will say I had this liminal space. I've had this, it's been a while. My daughter is just turned two, probably three to six months after she was born and all the way through, up until we started RVing, which was about six months ago, full-time RVing. For people who don't know, I we full-time rv, my family and I do. I felt this thing, like something is not, this isn't it for me?

Some this isn't it, but I don't know what, I don't know what is next. And so I, it really honestly, it felt like starting to move consistently. And maybe it's novelty and maybe it's giving up a bunch of shit. Like we sold our house and our 30 acres, like we just got rid of everything took off in a 42 foot fifth wheel.

And my point is we're constantly moving. We move every two to four weeks. We are in new places. We're in new environments, we're meeting new people. There's no, there's day-to-day stuff that's the same, but there's not stagnation or stagnation or like stillness in the way that there used to be. Not in a, I'm rushing through life and running from something sort of way, but in a, oh, thank God this pond is a creak, like the algae is not taking over the top.

I see this movement, it feels cleaner. Things feel like they're flowing smoother.

And so I don't think I sit in the middle space well, and I think what helps me in that space is if I can physically move again, whether that's hiking and I like being in trees. So for me specifically hiking in like a, a wooded area.

Or potentially just actually fucking move ing. You know, I think we are probably the exception rather than the norm in terms of in group practice ownership world. So if you can't do full-time RVing, then you know, don't, but go for a walk in the woods. Maybe that'll help.

Okay. Question number five. Are you afraid of what stepping back might mean or what it might reveal?

Ooh. I am not afraid of what it will reveal because I feel really confident in our systems and our setup, minus the finances I already told you let go payroll. It's like a shame-based thing for me. Mm. But even that, I know it's really shame-based rather than there's something, um, horrifying in there. It's really like, it's my shame that's getting in the way.

Am I afraid of stepping of what stepping back might mean? My small part is. The one who is really about the emotional care taking and. Sort of the, um, disbelief that fulfillment and meaning can come first. Like self-fulfillment and making meaning for myself can come before taking care of the people around me.

So that is, that's what I'm afraid of, what stepping back might mean. She, she is afraid of that thing, but grounded big girl, Tara, I call my daughter. Big girl. Big girl, Tara. Um, no. I don't, I don't feel afraid of what stepping back might mean. I think in my experience so far, and if you had asked me this question four months ago, I might have a different answer.

But right now, after stepping back a little bit with my group and focusing a little more on consulting, what I have found is that stepping back has given me, man, a lot more insight, like a lot more clarity, a lot more insight, a lot more enthusiasm for the group. And so it has had a counterintuitive effect.

I did not expect that I would feel this way, which has been really nice, honestly. So at this point, no, I'm not afraid of what stepping back might mean.

And the last question before the scenario, question number six. Prompt number six. Is that from the Mighty Ducks? Where that guy's doing that silly voice?

Okay. Number six. What would you build now if no one knew you and nothing needed to be on brand? Oh my good Lord. What would I build if no one knew me and nothing needed to be on brand? Oh, fuck. Um, honestly, what keeps coming to mind is a salon, like not a hair salon. I just had a conversation with my brain trust about this, but like a, a place where you go and you just sit and talk about deep shit.

That's it. No small talk aloud, like it comes maybe after you've dove in into whatever, no holds barred, raw, real big fucking discussions.

Which ironically is on brand for me. So I don't try to be on brand. I just am me and I try for my stuff, my copy, my offers, everything to reflect me so that I don't have to act because I'm really bad at that.

If I needed to build something now and no one knew me, it would just be a place for open communication somehow. If I could get paid for that, that would be incredible.

Hmm. What else would it be?

Honestly, I also think there's something in here about working with larger corporations. I. It's sort of like working in a corporate America type setting, but the focus is on still the same shit. Culture, like team culture, team health, organizational structure, and hierarchy and systems.

And like, it would all be the same, which I, I don't mean for, I don't mean to be a cop out, but. I try to live my life with my values, like guiding what I'm doing and with who I am temperament wise, and needs and alignment. All of that stuff influences direction that I choose to go, and it's hard for me to move forward with something if it doesn't hit those needs each step of the way.

And so I don't really think I would be doing much different than what I'm trying to do right now. Like it would just be more of the same, potentially in a slightly different field. But my guess is I would come straight back to like mental health regardless. Like I wouldn't even stay in corporate America.

Although I think there is something about working with group practices versus working with sort of these like very cut and dry analytical stereotypically male figures in my mind compared with group practice ownership and sort of like the vibe and feel of group practice ownership.

I like both worlds. I don't know if it's. My relationship with my own dad, sort of the way I was raised, my husband, like the men in my life, there's sort of themes with how they show up and so there's something almost refreshing about people who are just very cut and dry about certain things.

I think also because I know how to speak that language and it doesn't phase me to speak it. I like there's something relieving about like, oh, we're just gonna show the fuck up, hell yeah, let's go.

I like going toe to toe. I like a good fight. You all know this. I like conflict for reason. So I think this sort of side represents almost like healthy conflict and like toe to toe and battling. The issue of course is when you come into contact with people who are raging narcissists and have no idea that's not fun toe to toe conflict.

And then on the flip side, again, with group practice ownership, there's so much more attention to the people around you and so much more attunement and like emotional and relational focus. That also is so fulfilling and nourishing and it just is such a different feel.

So I could just be totally stereotypical and I'm sorry if I am, and correct me if I am, if you're know corporate America, you're in it.

You know? Correct me if I'm wrong and I would probably be doing the same thing, but just in two different domains. Like that would be, that would be my, my big, if I built it now and nobody knew me, I would do the same shit, honestly. So there's that.

Let's finish up the scenario. Oh man, this is a good scenario.

The old faithful that doesn't fit anymore. So I'm gonna read this out and give you the questions and I'm just gonna riff from there and then we're gonna wrap things up. You've got a team member who's been with you since the early days, loyal, consistent. Maybe they were even a rockstar when the practice was scrappier, but now the role has changed.

The business has evolved. You are starting to feel the subtle friction. Their vibe doesn't match the vision anymore. Here are the questions. There's three of them. Number one, do you shift their seat? Number two, do you tolerate this mismatch? Number three, do you have this conversation? I guess those aren't questions.

Those are options. I didn't put them on here, right?

What would you do? I think, I feel curious as you're listening to this, if there's something that comes to mind right away about what you would do.

I think for us, we do so much feedback and we are so in tune with, I what is happening and when problems occur. I will not say that we're in tune with everything, because I don't think that's possible.

But I do think the general vibe and with us staying in tune with scorecards and the way people are engaging with their work and the conversations they're having with the DCO or with the integrator or you know, we just sort of have a broad pulse of how things are at the group.

So I think if this happened, it would be a conversation. How that conversation takes place might vary. So for example, if there was a biannual review, we do twice annual reviews and they are way more culture focused in nature. They're not like performance based reviews. There's gonna be a question in there where I am asking the people if they get their role, if they want their role, and if they have the capacity to do it.

These are all based on their own thoughts, opinions, beliefs about themselves. And then I'm also gonna score and respond and we're gonna cross reference and discuss.

So theoretically, if this was happening, I might say no for wants it, and then if they said yes, that would kick off the discussion where I might say, this is super interesting.

I'm not sure you want it anymore. Let's talk about this. Here's what I know about the role. Here's how it's changed over time. You know, here's what I used to see from you, versus here's what I see now. And they might say that they have a lot of grief about it, or they aren't sure they're really enthusiastic about the direction of things, but they didn't know how to bring it up.

Or they feel resentful because they've been here for the longest and they don't see any preferential treatment, or they've wanted a leadership position and they didn't get it. They're still angry about it or any number of things could come up.

My point is it's sort of automatically baked into one of the conversations that we're having. It's baked into the biannual.

Additionally in those off quarters. So if a biannual is in January and July, for example, then in January, April and October we would do something like a quarterly conversation. These actually, we make optional at my practice, and so I know Gino Whitman would say they're mandatory, but it's private.

It's like group practice world is just different, I think from, you know, most businesses. So my point is, if this were happening and I caught wind of it, I would mandate that quarterly conversation, whatever the next conversation was, I would mandate that thing and that conversation. There's two prompts.

One is what's working and the other is what's not working. Each party answers both questions, and so it would come up there.

My point is that I would have the conversation and I would do it in a way that was in alignment with the feedback and processes we have in place, which sort of makes it, I'm not gonna say expected, but I think to some extent it kind of softens the blow.

And in those conversations, I'm not about like. Gotcha. Gotcha. Bitch. I'm really more about, hey, I'm noticing this thing. Am I catching this right? Like, what are you noticing or what are you thinking? Or how are you feeling?

It's way more about collaboration in the conversation than it is about top down, you know, coercive or punitive measures. I want this person to work out. Assuming that they want to be here.

And so if we can assess the vibe and make shifts and they can live out that role, fucking awesome. And if they can't, we continue that conversation.

And it might be, you know, in six weeks I might say, Hey. We talked about this before, but I'm still kind of noticing these things. And so potentially at that point it turns a little bit disciplinary where you say, you know, I hate to go down this route, but our values are a way of being here and it's non-negotiable.

And so what I'm noticing is you are not acting in accordance with the values based on these examples. And you might list some examples out.

You could say, I wanna ask you directly, are you interested in changing to meet our values or not?

And if they say yes or no, then you can go from there. And it might be that if you had the conversation with the quarterly or at the biannual, you could use that, you know that one, six weeks later, if their values are still not in alignment, they're still acting in problematic ways, you might turn that into your, literally your first disciplinary process step.

And so for us, that's a verbal warning. I might schedule with the person and kick off and say, Hey, I hate doing this, but this is a verbal warning. We talked at the quarterly or the biannual about living in accordance with our values. I'm still not seeing it. And then I might give examples of how it's like opposite of what we expect, and then I would say something to the effect of, this changes, boom. Here's what we need to see instead.

So it becomes part of the disciplinary process now, rather than just a conversation related to feedback, you know, as part of a quarterly conversation or a biannual review.

Some people are not gonna be lenient like that. Some people might go straight into this is a problem, we don't tolerate it, shape up or ship out. It could be something like that. I'm way more inclined to, I'm just a, I think I'm just a softie. This is also why I can't be in charge of holding boundaries. I'm a fucking softie, so I'm way more inclined to try to discuss and figure it out.

I wanna turn over the rocks on my side, all the way on my side that I can, and so maybe even some of those earlier conversations in the biannual or in the quarterly conversation is about how they've been feeling.

What is it that's getting in the way of them showing up in accordance with the values and if they think they are gonna be able to change, why or why not? What can I do to support them?

It might be all about support in that space, and then if they still don't change, then we shift into, you know, disciplinary. Again, not everybody's gonna be that way. Some people are gonna be way more cut and dry about this is a problem, here's how we're gonna deal with it. I'm just not that person.

I think that's it. I hope this is helpful. Again, I hope that some of this resonates with y'all, and like I said, make sure you subscribe and sign up for the EOS Mastermind wait list because shit launches soon and spots are already filling up. So www.taravossenkemper.com/eos-mastermind.

It was great seeing you here. So appreciate your time. Can't wait to see you again next time. Thank you for making this incredible peace out. Bye.