Culture Focused Practice

 Hey, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper here, and you're listening to the Culture Focused Practice Podcast. Thank you for being here with me.

Okay, so today is one of my favorite types of episodes, the owner's room, and we are gonna talk about when you are more frustrated than you're letting on.

So think about the owner's room as just a free flowing riff tastic, non listicle, non bulletted item, not really content heavy space for exploration into the messy and human side of leadership. That's how I like to think about it.

And if this is your style of podcast, I would say make sure you subscribe to stay up on all the episode releases that come out and to help this hit other people who need to hear it.

So last week at some point I talked about accountability. As you know, a system that really holds your culture together this week is the other side of that coin. So frustration you carry when you don't hold the line.

So the outline for owner's room, if you've never been here before. There's five questions that I will ask myself and answer. I do not prep for these in advance, so I have no idea where this goes. And then there's a scenario or two that I will read through and I'll just riff about what I might do if I was in that situation or how I might consult with somebody who was in that situation.

That's it. Very easy. Let's go, shall we?

Question number one, how does Hidden frustration show up in your tone, presence, or energy? Ooh. How does hidden frustration show up in my tone, presence, or energy?

Hmm. I think it shows up as resistance. Like I just don't want to do things. I don't want to do what's on my calendar. I don't wanna do what's on my to-do list. I don't wanna do a project that needs to get work done. Like, it's just, that's how frustration starts to show up for me.

It starts to show up like resistance, sometimes passive, where I'll just make myself busy doing something else and sometimes active where I will see a thing that I need to work on and I say, no, I'm not doing that. I don't wanna do that.

I think that for me, that typically indicates one, that I have too much on my plate, meaning that I have probably taken on too much. And if I've taken on too much, that might also mean that I am not putting things where they belong, that I'm like taking on things for myself rather than putting them with the right people.

With that said, this is all very fresh. My integrator has just come back from maternity leave, and so my schedule and my life has looked a little bit different in the past, you know, three and a half months than it will in the next three and a half months. But that aside, this still holds true that my frustration is gonna be in the form of very often some form of resistance.

It also takes the form of irritability, depending on what's going on. So if I haven't addressed something with a person, for example, or if there's like a little something that has happened that is like a three out of 10 frustrating, let's say, or and my reaction is anywhere from a five to a seven in response. That to me is a sign that there is some frustration about not holding folks accountable that is actually going on, because I'm not usually quick to anger, like I don't, I just, I don't know. I don't get angry very easily.

So when I do, or when I get really irritable, and if there's not anything hormonally happening for me, if I understand my cycle enough to know like, yeah, that's not this, then. It's gonna be hidden frustration, which for me always comes back to my own accountability stuff, whether it's, again, the, the lack of delegating something to the right people or not speaking up about something to a person that I need to talk to.

So, yeah, I think that's it. That's how it shows up for me.

Question two, where do you notice frustration the most in meetings, in supervision, in silence, or elsewhere?

Oh. I notice it in silence. And so here's what I'm gonna say about that. I really don't like a full schedule. I do not like to have a lot of things on my calendar. I don't wanna see a lot of meetings. I get excited and I schedule something and then I, a week later I'm like, fuck me. Why did you schedule that? What is wrong with you? To myself, obviously.

And so on, like a weekly basis, for example, if I'm looking ahead at my calendar and I'm looking at my week and I'm thinking about what do I wanna get done, what do I need to get done, what's on my calendar? I'm gonna feel pissed in that time because I'm gonna see all of the things on my calendar, and right away I might start thinking to myself, what can I cancel?

What can I get off my calendar? What can I turn into an email? What can I generate a voice memo about? What do I just need to communicate without a bunch of dialogue back and forth? Like where do I get rid of shit? Or I might look at my to-do list also in silence. I might scan and think or say out loud to myself or probably in my head, since it's in silence, what, what am I not gonna do?

Like, what actually needs to go to my integrator or my DCO or my marketing director, or my client care coordinator, or wherever else. So I think there's something about the silence and then looking ahead at the things I have to do where frustration lives very loud for me, where I'm, I'm sort of, I'm mad at myself. I'm frustrated with myself for setting up my schedule in a certain way.

It can also happen in meetings. However, there's a big caveat here because this might seem counterintuitive, but most of the meetings that we have are purposeful. And if they're not, they usually go by the wayside.

So if there is a meeting that is not very intentional or it's sort of like, I don't know, what are we doing here? Like, I'm not sure that this meeting is useful in the way that it's happening.

We have scrapped, I have, I have recently scrapped a meeting that was like that and turned it into a shared ongoing running document and it's fucking awesome and it saves an hour of my time each week. I still get the exact same information. That's a side note.

My point is if I'm in a meeting that feels like it's untethered and sort of unmoored and I'm questioning what are we doing, I'm gonna be real fucking frustrated. I do not like wasting my time.

Additionally, if we're in a meeting and things keep getting off track in like leadership L 10 meetings or something, let's just say we're having a meeting. Things keep getting off track. I'm gonna get frustrated.

But in those meetings, I'm just gonna say, okay, look, we keep getting off track, like we gotta stay focused. I'm getting a little bit frustrated. That's easy because it's right there. It's course correctable. I can say that and take ownership. Like, fuck, I got us off track too. By talking about this. I'm realizing like, I'm actually done. I wanna, I wanna stay focused and my leadership team is gonna hear it and they know me. So it's, it's easy to say something like that.

So I would say primarily my frustration is gonna live in silence when I'm by myself and I'm like taking stock of what's going on in my work world, you know? And then secondarily, it's gonna live in meetings. It's gonna live in spaces where I'm questioning the relevance of the thing that we're doing and slash, or the topic that we're talking about in relation to how much I value my time and I'm gonna have some frustration.

So. I think that's it. I think that that's where frustration I'll, I'll see it the most.

Question three, what are you afraid might happen if you name the frustration out loud? Oh, I'm surprised that I highlighted this question because fucking nothing, like, I'm not afraid of naming the frustration out loud.

I would much rather name it out loud so then I can figure out what to do with it. Sometimes what happens if I name it out loud is that whoever I'm with, I'm gonna start figuring out, okay, help me process this real quick and let me figure out where things need to go. That person is almost always gonna be my Integrator.

Like that is my right hand woman for a reason. She is gonna be the one that's right there with me. We're gonna do these same page meetings, we're gonna stay in tune with each other in a very, you know, sort of unique way and I might label things with her to say, I'm feeling frustrated about this and I can't really figure it out, and I think I need to get rid of something, but I don't know what. Will you help me look at this?

And she's gonna be right there with me. You know, I think I'm good at, I hate saying what I think I'm good at or what I think I excel at or how I think I'm unique because I don't, I don't know, for real. I don't have anybody to compare myself to. I don't know what it's like in somebody else's head or how they see themselves or how other people see me. So I'm saying this with a grain of salt. I think that one thing I'm good at is naming a frustration and then owning it and not placing it on the people around me.

So I talked about the accountability mirror last episode, and if you haven't listened, just feel free to go back and listen.

But ultimately, the accountability mirror reflects the need to look at yourself in any sort of experience where you're feeling frustrated or where you're unsure why something keeps happening, that in essence we're saying that we have a role in, in whatever it is that's going on.

I think I do that well. So it's really rare that I feel frustrated and then I push it onto somebody else and say, you're the one at fault here. I'm frustrated because you blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna say, man, I'm frustrated. I keep taking on too much. I think I need you to help me figure out when to stop.

Like I want you to have permission and I want you to feel empowered to say, Tara, you need to calm the hell down. Like, no, that's too much for you. That's too much on your plate. That would be to my Integrator, for example. So I don't think I'm afraid of what might happen if you name the frustration out loud.

I think I tend to feel relieved because now it's something that I can tend to and basically fix. Try to modify it to get rid of it. If you are a conflict avoidant person, though, if you're sort of uncomfortable with tension or distress or maybe some friction, I could see there being some fear around what happens if you name frustration out loud.

Will people think I'm nice? Will they like me? Are we gonna be okay? How's the relationship gonna be? Yeah, I think that that's probably normal. It's just not normal for me.

Okay. Question four. How do your past leadership experiences shape how you carry frustration now? Hmm.

I have had to grow into accepting that I should do less. I would even say embracing that I have to do less. In practice, that might still be something that I have to actively tend to, but the extent to which I do less now is more, it's funny to say it that way than, you know, a few years ago even.

So I think that there have been enough past leadership experiences about me disrespecting my own limitations and natural sort of strengths and natural areas of weakness as a leader that I've learned from. I've like, I've learned enough about this in my experience of leadership to not consistently put myself in positions where I'm gonna feel frustrated because I have a task or a project that I'm working on that I don't want anything to do with like, not for real.

Then there's also people experiences that I've had. So early on, there's a couple, there's two in particular pretty powerful experiences I had with some former employees, and each of them were very close to me. I was very close to each of them, and it just didn't work out.

And I'm not trying to crap on them, but what I will say about myself is that my relationships with those people were forged and deepened before I did some pretty powerful therapy.

Not least of which includes neurofeedback and EMDR. And so I did a lot of trauma processing, a lot of brain-based work, and in that I healed. I continue healing. I still have healing to do. I was literally crying this morning in therapy about something that was so needed and so beautiful and so hard.

So my point is I've done a lot of healing, and those relationships would not have developed in the way that they did with the current version of me.

And so I think now whenever I have experiences with people that feel energetically very similar or internally, physiologically, very similar to relationships with those two people in particular, I'm much less likely to engage in the relationship and I know that if I do, there's gonna be some level of frustration that I experience because those types of people rarely feel like they are ever given enough.

So they're constantly wanting more and constantly mildly dissatisfied with some sort of role or process or system, or of what I'm doing, for example.

And I'm not entirely sure how to clearly say how that shaped the way I carry frustration now, other than to say the frustration I carried about those relationships significantly influenced my healing, of course, but also the way we hire.

And so maybe the answer to the question, how do your past leadership experiences shape how you carry frustration now, is that the shitty experiences I have had over the years can't not influence not only how I show up now, but also how I carry frustration.

My expectations are so much different now for the people, not only that I willfully engage with and that we excitedly hire, but also the boundaries that we put in place, the parameters for the role, the conversations we have about what's expected versus what's not.

For me, that clarity, having clarity and then laying it out for people almost immediately relieves this possibility of frustration, to the extent that I don't even really feel like I carry it now for the same problems or for the same issues that I previously carried it with.

This is a deceptively hard question. I'm surprised it's like hard to clearly say what I mean. So I hope that that makes sense. What I did just say, and at the risk of rambling, I am gonna move on.

So question number five, now, how do you know the difference between frustration that needs action versus frustration you just need to sit with?

I don't know. Honestly, I, can you help me with this please? Because. I like conflict. Sure. But I don't necessarily like feeling frustrated. It's not enjoyable. It's not like I'm somebody that walks around seeking conflict in every direction.

You know? Okay. So, if I do think about this though, if I take just another split second to think about it, quote, think in all of 10 seconds, what is coming up for me is that I don't know if there's an external indicator for, you know, this needs action versus this just needs to be sat with, but there is an internal threshold that I reach.

And so I think I said earlier, there's this resistance that I have to doing things that's gonna be an indicator for me. I always am gonna have a little bit of resistance to doing anything because I feel like I'm a fucking butterfly in that regard. Like, I like to just be able to do whatever it is that I wanna do.

And so almost any meeting I'm gonna be annoyed seeing on my calendar, but I'm still gonna look and say, is there anything I can actually get rid of, you know?

So, it's almost like there's, there's constantly a low level of I don't wanna do these things, I just wanna do this over here, whatever that might be.

But it seems like there's something about the intensity of that feeling and the time duration of that feeling. So if this is something that's happening at a, if I were to rate it on a 10 point scale, at a six out of 10, I'm feeling this frustration, like, I really don't wanna fucking do this. I'm really annoyed with this.

And that remains for three weeks in a row and there's not really any end in sight, that's a hell no for me, like that is a, I need to take action moment. Something's gotta give. I'm not gonna keep doing this 'cause I hate whatever it is that's happening.

If it's going on for three weeks and there's a six outta 10 frustration. And also we're in this like major push for a project or an overhaul, or there's a transition and I know that there's two more weeks or three more weeks and then it will lessen, then I'm gonna continue. I'm just gonna keep going.

So I think there's some moments where it's like if something's gonna continue on in perpetuity and there's no end in sight and I'm feeling frustrated, I will change course. I will take action.

If there's something that is maybe more time limited, regardless of the intensity of my frustration, that's not true up to a certain extent with regard to the intensity of my frustration, then I might just sit with it and I might just continue on.

If I'm at like a nine or 10 outta 10 frustrated with something, regardless of how long I think it's going to last, that's gonna go to, I'm gonna figure out what is happening because that, that's pretty exceptional too. So I think there's, in all of this, I think there's some need to know your own thresholds, your own internal thresholds.

But yeah, ultimately I would say those are the main two variables in that difference between frustration that needs action versus sitting with it.

And those variables are the intensity of the frustration and then the duration of the frustration. And that's it.

Alright, let's move on. We're just gonna do one scenario today. I'm gonna keep it short. I'm gonna keep it short and sweet. And we'll do one that's leadership based.

So scenario number one, and only you are in a leadership meeting and your clinical director or equivalent commits to tasks but rarely follows through. The first few times you gave grace and picked up the slack, telling yourself it was quicker that way. The pattern continues, and now you're carrying both the work and the resentment on the surface.

You keep it together, but every time you cover for them, the frustration grows louder inside. You're not just annoyed with them, you're angry at yourself for avoiding the accountability conversation and that that unspoken frustration is costing you more energy than the actual work.

Yeah, this is probably an example of a time that I wouldn't let that continue.

Maybe four years ago Tara would, but current Tara, no. I have too much other shit that I wanna do. I can't pick up somebody else's slack on a consistent basis. I can for my integrator when she's on leave 'cause it's purposeful, but when she's back. Where do you think all those things are going back to her, back to that role.

So I have a few thoughts about if this is happening.

First and foremost, if you're running L10 style meetings, and if you don't know what L10 style meetings are, they are level 10 meetings the entrepreneurial operating system, or EOS developed by Gino Wickman.

If there's a very strict agenda with L 10 meetings, I always forget the order of the things in the beginning, even though we've been doing them for four years. Don't ask me why. I just literally can't remember the order off the top of my head. I do know segues first, and then I think it's scorecard. Then maybe it's rock review and then headlines, and then to-do list. Maybe that's it, and then it's issues and then it's conclusion.

My point in that agenda though, is that at the top, within the first 30 minutes, there's a five minute slot for to do items, and if an item is not done for two weeks in a row, that item gets dropped down to the issues list because we are now looking at a patterned behavior.

And so the second week in a row, if my clinical director did not get a task done that was assigned to them, or maybe multiple, it's gonna go on the issues list. And when we get to the issues list section, which is a 60 minute block where you select the top three issues, I'm gonna highlight that first and foremost.

And that's gonna be a conversation that we have as a leadership team where I'm gonna say clinical director, the issue that I'm seeing is that these to-do items are not getting done. What's going on?

In having that space to do that, first and foremost, I'm not taking on the to-do items, which means that I'm not feeding possible frustration and resentment. So I'm immediately cutting that off and setting it to the side.

Secondly, if there is an actual problem happening that's getting in the way of your CD completing these tasks, now we have space and time to figure out what it is and to remove the barriers or the blocks to them getting the task done.

Third, since you have addressed this now, in L10. You've removed the blocks, you have not taken on the resentment. If it continues, now we might be starting to look at a people issue, where you are wondering, is this the right person for this seat?

And that's a different conversation. That's a people analyzer conversation where we're cross-referencing this person with our core values and we are also doing a GWC analysis for the person. And then that feedback is something that you can go to them and have a conversation about.

One of the many things I like about EOS is that it, it's almost like it removes you from the equation. If you are tasked with engaging in EOS processes and you're implementing the tools and you're trying to gain traction. It's almost like, well, I'm not doing this.

I am being called, or I am required, or I am following script like I'm doing what EOS wants us to do. I'm doing what is expected as a group, as a company, as leadership team of people who are implementing and using EOS.

And I'm saying all this to say that for me, that helps to remove some of the feelings about it as well. There's probably other feelings. I mean, there might be just general frustration about having to possibly find another clinical director, but that's less about resentment. That just might be more about the, oh man, that's gonna be a lot of work.

Okay, cool. And then the person who's responsible for hiring and onboarding just gets on it. If, if the CD has to be let go or says, yeah, you're right, this isn't the role I want.

In the best case scenario, if you're operating from this L 10 style meeting and you're talking about these to do items a getting done for the second week. Now let's drop it to issues and we're gonna talk through this. The best case scenario is that you remove the barriers or the blocks, or you help to clarify the role or the expectations, whatever the problem is that's blocking the clinical director from getting the tasks done.

And then they do the tasks. And now you have a CD who is performing and meeting the expectations that you have set for them. All without resentment, all without frustration. Now it's just a conversation.

And maybe another takeaway in that meeting or that you talk about with your leadership team as a result of that meeting is, as your direct supervisor, if you are the direct supervisor, my job is to help you be able to do yours. So if you're realizing that you can't get something done and you don't know how to solve that problem, my expectation is that you come to me and tell me that, so then I can help you figure out what's really going on and what we need to do.

And then I would probably add in something like, if you don't come to me and all I'm seeing is something not get done, it seems like you're either avoiding the tasks or you're uninterested.

And what I'll say, which doesn't need to be centered in this, but as a person bearing witness to something like this, it's a little bit frustrating. I really want to help you, but if I don't know that there's a block, it's hard for me to step in and help. And so then I feel like I'm indirectly feeding into you feeling blocked to get something done.

You could probably add in a feeling based word if you wanted to. You don't have to do that. And I think it also just depends on your relationship with the person, and it depends on the extent of your frustration.

So I would probably say that if I was like high level frustrated, if I was real frustrated about something, I'm gonna acknowledge that I was frustrated. And also I'm gonna acknowledge my role in it, like what I can do differently, or I might say. What do you need from me to help you step forward sooner if you're struggling with something? What can I do?

So then again, there's not ownership of another person's behavior, but a step to help them do something that you, you want to happen and also likely they want to happen to.

So I think that's it. There's always more to say, but I think this actually covers most of it.

Mostly I wanna say thank you for joining me and listening in.

The owner's room really does feel like the sacred space where wandering and like exploring is the norm. And I know for myself, I love that space. My equal and opposite hope is that it's helpful for you and that whatever we are talking about actually resonates for you. If it does, please hit subscribe and slash or share the episode with somebody who you think might benefit from hearing it.

And now that's really it. Thanks again for being here. Super appreciate your time. I know how valuable it is, and I will see you next time. Bye.