Culture Focused Practice

Hey. Hey, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper here, and you are listening to the Culture Focused Practice podcast. Thank you for being here with me.

Today we're gonna talk about systems fatigue. So basically, if you've started, let's just go with E OS, because you allall know I love EOS, and this is what we use in my practice.

Let's say you start at E os and you wanted to create clarity and structure, and it helped until it didn't. And now maybe it feels heavy or clunky or cluttered, and you're left wondering if you are doing it wrong or if the system just isn't built for your practice.

We've all been there. Here's the spoiler. You're not broken, but something might be. That's for today.

 If you like the sort of conversation about systems and structure and trying to stay sane as a leader at a group practice. Hit subscribe. The more you subscribe to the podcast, the more this message is going to hit other people who need it. So do that before we go further.

Also let me set an agenda. I like to give parameters to the episode, one to contain myself. And two, just to give you an idea of what to expect. So there's only three broad things we're gonna talk about here.

Number one, why systems fatigue happens. Number two, diagnosing your issue. And number three, what to do when you're ready to burn it all down.

Let's dig in, shall we?

Agenda Item number one, why systems fatigue happens even with something as solid as EOS. There's a few things that might be happening. It could be that you're following, like you're using the tools, you're following the tools you're, you're implementing in the way that you thought you were supposed to, or maybe that you were taught to, but you're just not feeling traction yet.

So when I talk about traction, you know, it's one of the six components of EOS as a whole. And within it we've got things like meeting pulse and accountability, and it's like everything that is in place comes together and you start to feel the effect of it working. As well as there are tools within the slice of traction pie that require consistency.

And so it might be, if you've recently implemented some of the tools, it might just be that you haven't really felt the outcome yet. I think that when we started implementing EOS, there was a little space between getting it going and feeling the impact of it.

And so it could be that you are doing the tools, but you're sort of in that limbo period where you got this initial high and you got this initial clarity and you, you sort of felt great getting it going. And now it's just sort of drug on. And you're wondering, well, when am I supposed to really feel traction or why don't I feel traction yet?

It could be the amount of time in between implementation and feeling traction. You again, could be in that limbo period. It might also be that some of the tools are being either underutilized or overutilized. And by underutilized. I'm not trying to come at you or something.

I even recently, I mean literally like, two days ago from, you know, before recording this, I was having a conversation with a group practice friend who doesn't use EOS for the record, but we were talking about organizational structure and accountability stuff and key employees having one number that they look after.

And it just dawned on me, I'm doing this wrong. Something about what I'm doing is slightly off. And I think that I was underutilizing a piece of EOS that I should not be underutilizing. Like, I need to focus more on this.

So it could also be related to following the tools.

It could be you're in that limbo period between implementing the tools and feeling the effects of them. It could also be you're underutilizing them case in point me, or you're maybe over utilizing them. Maybe you're really relying heavily on one thing. Let's say your accountability chart, but you're not actually holding people accountable to their responsibilities.

That would be like over utilizing this chart, but then under utilizing a key aspect of it. So that's one reason why systems fatigue might happen.

Another is that meetings are performative in stead of productive. Look, I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't like meetings. I don't like spending the time in a meeting when I could be doing other things that I think are of high value.

I don't like the amount of space they take up on my calendar. I don't like scheduling them. I, there are so many things about them that I don't like. That's my baseline. On top of that, if I'm in a meeting that is not efficient or intentional or productive, I'm gonna pull my fucking hair out. I hate it even more. It's like adding insult to injury.

So if you are in a place where your meetings are performative, they're not being well run. They can't be because a performative meeting is a facade. It's a space where people just talk and take up airtime without providing value or staying true maybe to the agenda in the way that it's intended.

So if we're not holding true to that meeting structure and we're getting off track and we're talking about random shit and we don't ever get back to it, or it takes us 20 minutes to get back to what we're trying to do, that to me is performative.

It's just we're having a meeting for a meeting's sake, not because we wanna get anything out of it. So systems fatigue can be happening because meetings are performative in stead of productive.

Another reason why systems fatigue happens is because structure can start to feel like red tape instead of support.

Here is, for me, what is like a fundamental sort of belief about group practices. And you see this in my Living practice framework. You probably hear this indirectly and sometimes directly when I'm talking about things.

A practice is a living organism. It's alive. It requires constant, healthy nutrition to evolve and be robust.

So if you're in a place where the structure is feeling like red tape and not like support, then that means we need to look at the system and see what needs to be tweaked. So it could be that this is a sign of hitting the ceiling, or this is a sign of a role evolution or of either a decrease or an increase in growth, and you need the structure to now evolve with you because the needs of the practice are evolving.

Fourth reason why systems fatigue happens is about your evolution as a leader. This is the most prominent thing for me right now. So I'm just gonna be totally honest with you. I'm in the thick of this as I speak.

As you retain a leadership position, whether you're the owner or whether you're leadership at the practice. The way you live this position, the way you're living out this role will change over time. Your ability to lead is gonna be better. Your ability to see things from a higher, bird's eye view is going to be more clear.

Your ability to hold people's feet to the fire, hold people accountable, especially with effective leadership and management, accountability comes next, naturally. Your ability to do that will also be better. You're gonna be a better leader.

And with becoming a better leader, there's gonna be things that you realize about what you're doing and how you approach leadership that need to change.

And you might not know yet how you can evolve as a leader within the confines of a structure. And so, what a lot of people will do at that point is they'll say the structure is the issue. This is, this is not working. It's way too rigid.

The reality is that EOS structure allows for evolution and flexibility and autonomy and role changes. You feeling like this is too rigid might actually be reflective of your evolution as a leader and not necessarily the structure itself. I'm saying hold that as an option. That might be a possibility.

Let me say one more thing actually before I get to agenda item number two. I think the only other piece to all of this is that from my perspective, systems fatigue is always gonna happen. I think of it as part of hitting the ceiling.

But I think just broadly speaking, I, when you're doing something for so long, when you implement something, when you are running meetings, like things can get stale, they can feel exhausting to do, they can leave you questioning whether or not you are doing them well or effectively, or if it's the structure itself or if it's the people around you.

All of this is a normal part of group practice ownership and leadership. I love it. I guess maybe it's like a love hate thing, you know, like, I love it. I love figuring it out. I love thinking about the problems. I love figuring out like what is actually going on. And of course, the opposite of that is sometimes you have to make really hard changes.

What they are just obviously is totally dependent on what the problem is, of course. That's not necessarily fun, especially when it impacts other people in a negative way, and that's the cost of making decisions to keep a whole system healthy rather than, you know, not hurt somebody's feelings or multiple people's feelings.

Yeah, so I just wanted to normalize that really quick, that if you're like, well, systems fatigue will never happen if things are great. No. Yes, it will. It's always going to happen. It's part of the process. It's just figuring out why it happens and then solving that problem, which is actually a great segue into agenda item number two: is it fatigue or failure? How do we diagnose what's really going on? God, I love this.

First, you might ask yourself, is this a clarity issue? Are people confused about the why behind the tools? Am I confused about my role in the organization? Am I taking clarity breaks to be able to allow myself space and time to really reflect on what's working and what's not?

So let's say you're really, really bogged down. If it's a clarity issue, it's gonna be super fucking hard to remove yourself to think about things, but it's gonna be a requirement in order to really figure out is this a clarity issue or something else.

So I'm just saying it's hard as hell when I'm in the thick of like, I've got a lot of shit I need to get done, the absolute last thing that I want to do is not work on the things I need to get done. I. And instead take time to think. It feels like a luxury. It feels self-indulgent, and the reality is that that's the only way that I'm actually gonna get clarity on what the problem is.

So. If you do wanna diagnose things, you have to figure out is this a clarity issue? That's one thing.

There's three like main questions. One, is it a clarity issue? Two, is it a leadership issue? Are you and slash or is somebody on your leadership team holding the system with authority or avoidance? Basically, are you leading effectively?

So with leadership, there's a formulaic approach to leadership. This is in Gino Wickman's book, how to Be a Great Boss, super easy read, love this book. Very simple, very cut and dry.

The formula is leadership plus management equals accountability.

And so the reality is that by me asking, is this a leadership issue, what I'm really asking is, are you leading and managing effectively? And so there are five leadership principles, there are five management practices. Those things together will get you accountability.

The third question, is it a cadence issue? Are you trying to run EOS at a pace that no longer fits with your team size or growth stage? Man, this question resonates right now. Again, I said earlier that the evolution is a leader is really prominent for me in terms of systems fatigue. One of my questions is this thing, what's our cadence?

We're a person down on our leadership team. And we're still trying to hit it at the same speed as we have been. I don't know if that's sustainable. I don't actually know if that's realistic. And so for me, the evolution as a leader might be accepting that there's a need and a time to slow down. When you're one person down on leadership might be a good time to slow down.

I. I do not slow down easily or ever like naturally. That's not usually something I do well. So maybe that's really my evolution as a leader, the need to do that.

So again, the question, is it a cadence issue? I think also just a quick call back to earlier in this episode, I talked about that sixth piece of the pie, the traction piece where we talk about meeting pulse or accountability.

Yeah, there's a rhythm to EOS. There's a rhythm to implementing and using these tools. There's a rhythm to running your group. A rhythm that you start with doesn't need to be one that you maintain in either direction, like faster or slower.

So if you are looking at, you know, what's the, what's the problem? Trying to diagnose what's actually going on related to systems fatigue. I think the internal question, the feeling is like, is it fatigue or is it failure? Am I failing? Have I failed? Is this wrong? Is this a failure? But ultimately, we're just trying to figure out where the problem is.

And so asking yourself, is it a clarity issue, number one? Is it a leadership issue, number two? Is it a cadence issue, number three? It can get a little bit tricky in that it might be a flavor of all three. You might get a little, you know, hodgepodge of three. Sometimes it's very clear that it's just one or the other. Those are obviously the easiest things to fix.

But the more this is implemented and the more consistently you're using EEO s. What tends to happen is that it's smaller tweaks in maybe a couple of different places. So initial implementation of something like EOS and like a very clean structure is gonna get you, not like massive changes, but much more obvious, like much louder, so to speak, issues.

Like you can see them really clear and they are this or this, like it's, it's almost not exactly black and white, but a little more black and white. If you've been using this and you're in the space of systems fatigue, it can be a little bit harder to discern what the actual problem is because it might be just a tiny little bit of multiple things.

It could be a little bit of clarity, a little bit of leadership, and a little bit of cadence. Again, not spending any time reflecting on those questions, you're never gonna get the clarity to be able to answer. So.

From my perspective, the answer is gonna be you at least have to start by taking a clarity break. And if you wanna know more about clarity breaks, you can, I think, find that in both Traction and How to Be a Great Boss. That's another Gino Wickman concept, in case I haven't been clear about that.

Okay, so let's say we have a diagnosis, then we segue into agenda item number three. What to do when you're ready to throw EOS out the window, you said, fuck this baby and this dirty ass bath water.

Here's what we do. Number one, we reground the tools in our vision. EOS is not a checklist, it's a conceptual lens. You know, it's funny because my background is clinical. I'm an LPC in Missouri.

I've done therapy for however many years at this point. And my doctoral level training was in counselor education and supervision. And so basically teaching baby counselors in every regard.

So I'm saying that to say this notion of a theoretical orientation in therapy is very well known. Like every sort therapist that I know with some exceptions can indicate a theoretical orientation that they are primarily grounded in.

What I haven't seen happen though is that people transition to leadership or they transition to business ownership and they think about leading or operating a business through a theoretical lens.

If we are treating EOS, like a series of checklists, check, check, check, check. We're missing the point. The point is that it is, you know, in their words, an operating system, which I think is absolutely true. And so if you're a tech person, maybe that speaks to you. I'm a clinician and what speaks to me is a theoretical orientation.

So if you don't have tools that are grounded in your larger vision and you're using EOS as a series of things to check off a list, you are doing it wrong. It is a whole framework for understanding your business, where it is, where it's going, where it's been, how we solve problems, how problems develop, what we do as a leadership, how we show up together.

It sort of gives you all of these answers that you get to create. It gives you the structure to answer those for yourself and your group, and then to move forward through that.

So if you are ready to throw the EOS baby out with the bath water, I would say first things first, reground the tools, the EOS tools in your vision. That's one thing.

Second thing, simplify where needed. So maybe you are trying to fit every single tool in at every single juncture all the time. A hundred percent. Maybe not every tool needs that much attention, or maybe not every tool needs to be used on the weekly rhythm schedule that you're trying to hold.

Maybe you could get rid of some, maybe you could just decrease a little bit. This kind of gets at that cadence piece, you know, kind of gets at if the cadence of EOS part of the problem, if so, is there a sub-question regarding the frequency that you're using some tools. Not all of them.

I do think some need to be used weekly from my perspective, IDS or the issues list need to be used weekly. Scorecards need to be used weekly, but maybe there are some things that you don't need to be attending to every single week. So simplify where you can.

Third piece in all of this is pause and reset. Look, I am not a person who enjoys slowing down for the sake of slowing down. This is something that gets me in trouble sometimes.

There reaches a point where I know something is off. I can't yet identify what it is, and I know that I want to pull back what I know about myself is that that feeling indicates I need a pause and reset. I need that in my life.

I need to step away because if I don't, I'm gonna wanna burn things down. And so that pause and reset, think of it as a breather. Think of it as an off week for a workout. Think of it as just taking a couple weeks to letting the dust settle.

I always think about fish tanks. If you have sand in a fish tank that's filled with water and you move something, you try to adjust a plant or, uh, you're putting a new piece in.

There's gonna be sediment everywhere in the water. You cannot rush the process of making the sediment go back down faster. You can't rush it. And so it might be that you're thinking about this pause and reset as time for your sediment in your fish tank to settle back down. And then at that point you can see things a little bit more clearly.

So this is also getting back at that clarity break piece. You know, being able to take some time and really reflect on what's working and what's not. Maybe also, in that pause and reset, not doing any work. Taking an entire week or two off where you don't tend to the business at all. And then you do a clarity break at the end of that before you step back into the practice. That would be awesome actually.

So think about pausing and resetting as allowing yourself to integrate, period.

And then the last thing, when you're ready to throw EOS out the window, you might need to release some components of EOS against the way that they're recommended. And so something like L 10 is a weekly 90 minute meeting, same time, same day, same people every single week. You only don't attend if you are, I mean, on your deathbed or on vacation. That's basically it.

I know some people do this every other week. I know I have considered, do we drop this to every other week? I know some people do twice weekly leadership style meetings, leadership team meetings. That would be way too much for us. We would get nothing done because we would spend all of our time in meetings, basically.

So it might be that you're looking at a singular component of EOS. And then you're saying this specific thing isn't really working and it's actually creating more friction or systems fatigue or fatigue for leadership or issues than it is helping. And then you modify that.

You can't get to that answer until you clarify what the issue is. That has to be your starting point- is trying to figure out what's the actual problem and then going from there.

I have two more calls to action for you. Number one. Of course, again, subscribe. If you haven't already, please subscribe. The more you do, the more you get episodes as they release, and then also the more that people who need this message or messages like these find it, which is really awesome.

Second thing, if you need a community, if you really feel like. I'm doing this, but I'm struggling. I need people and space around me to sort through this or a place where I can just go and ask questions or I need to be able to look back at trainings about certain things.

Consider joining the membership. It's inside the Living Practice, which is a play on my Living Practice framework. Thank you very much. And there is a variety of things in there. Of course, there's tools and resources. There's live q and As every month. There's live trainings every month. There's almost like me on speed dial.

So if you really want some EOS support or leadership, structure, employees, feedback, culture support, that's gonna be the spot for you honestly. You can find that by going to www.taravossenkemper.com/the-membership. Easiest way to find it.

And that my friends, is all I have for you. Thank you so much. I hope this is helpful. I really appreciate your time as per usual, and I will see you on the next one. Bye.