Culture Focused Practice

Hey there. Welcome back, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper here, and you were listening to the Culture Focused Practice Podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining me. We are embarking on a four episode miniseries and we are currently on episode number two. Our mini series is all about hard conversations, and today specifically we're gonna talk about some scripts.

Scripts for the hard stuff, what to say when it's awkward, emotional, or personal. I mean, I'll be honest, I think most hard conversations are going to have some flavor of awkward, emotional or personal. It's, it's just gonna be mixed up in there, so hopefully this is relevant.

I think this one in particular, think about this episode as being really for any practice owner, leadership boss, who's delayed a hard conversation because they don't know how to start it.

You know, we're talking about the actual language that you might use whenever shit gets real or sticky or messy or emotional or awkward, so. I know for myself, sometimes it's just helpful to have the language in front of me and to maybe practice, say it coming outta my mouth so I can feel what it's actually like coming outta my mouth.

So there's a few key agenda items, just to give you a little bit of context for how this episode will flow. We'll start with some types of conflict moments. I think that's relevant. Just to orient us towards what this might, when this might be helpful, excuse me, we'll get into helpful language for the start, starting the conversation.

We will talk about holding language, so in the moment language, like in that space, and we're gonna end with clarity. So. Meaning how you might end a conversation, how you might ensure that takeaways are happening, and then of course there's a couple action steps for you if you so choose to participate.

So, so let's do this. Okay. Types of conflict that might need a script that you could benefit from potentially. One is giving feedback on underperformance. Y'all know this shit sucks. I just. As much as I love people, the hard stuff just remains hard. Like, I don't know if it ever really gets easier. Maybe your muscles get better at doing it, but I think it just always feels hard to do.

So giving feedback on under performance is one conflict moment that might benefit from a script. Basically stepping in and having some idea of what you want to say or should say, or how you might start the conversation, that can be a really helpful. Moment to have a script for. So giving feedback on underperformance.

Another type of conflict moment that needs a script or could benefit from having a script is calling out behavior that's rubbing people the wrong way. So I think this could be individual, like it's rubbing you the wrong way, which has its own flavor, its own script, if you will. I feel much more grounded in doing something like that because I am entirely speaking from my own experience and perspective, and I know myself relatively well, so I know if my own shit is like coming up and like getting mixed up into things.

I say for me personally, this is much harder to do when somebody's behavior is impacting others in a negative way and like it's rubbing other people wrong. On one hand, I feel more protective of others. And on the other, I never want those other people, the people who are being rubbed the wrong way to feel thrown under the bus. Because if I go to have this conversation and I'm pulling in these other people with their consent, you know, or if they say, I don't want them to know it's me, but there's only three people that it could be, I just that it gets a little bit messy.

It's doable for the record. It can be done, but that's much harder. Again, for me, I think that that's much more difficult to do.

Um, a third type of conflict moment that might need a script is addressing like attitude, energy, sort of vibe that, like cultural stuff, you know, like somebody not living out the values, for example.

So that can be really beneficial to step in and just have a very clear idea of how to say this thing, how to start this conversation.

And then the last moment, the last type of conflict moment that might need a script is following up after a tense moment. I actually love this. I think that repair in any type of relationship is very, very important. So if there's something that goes down in a negative way or goes wrong or just like is a ugh, that didn't feel good between you and another person, or something even that you noticed sort of happening. To me, I think the checking in piece and figuring out like, Ooh, ooh, what was this? Like, what just happened?

That can be really beneficial for building the relationship back up between you and that person, or potentially like letting them know that you're safe and that you see what's happening on between them and somebody else, for example.

For the record, there's definitely other types of conflict moments that might benefit from having scripts, but these are just a few, uh, common enough ones that I figured I would include them here. There, there are definitely more. This is not an exhaustive list.

Okay, let's do some language then. Shall we, shall we do some language? We shall. Helpful language for starting a conversation like this.

I'm gonna give you three examples. There are. Oh God. So many more options and ways you could start a conversation. I also think that the start of a conversation should, I think it should heavily rely and depend on the person that you are engaging with and your relationship with that person. So if I know somebody well, the way I start a conversation might be different compared to me not knowing somebody well, or if I know a person well, my conversation is gonna be different from another person that I know well, just because I know how they function, what they think, how they feel, I have a sense for how they might react.

And so I'm gonna almost like tailor my approach to the conversation based on the person in front of me, as well as based on my own reactions with whatever the content is. So I think it's worth saying that these are gonna be broad ways you could address something and maybe from a, from a high level view, any way you approach a conversation might fall into a similar category. Maybe there's only five rough categories of how to approach these kinds of conversations, but the specifics with how you do it is gonna vary and that's totally fine. This is just to give you a sort of an idea of how you might start.

So your first example for helpful language for the start of that hard discussion. It could be as simple as, Hey Joe, I love using Joe. It's a very easy name. Hey Joe, this sucks. This is gonna, it's a really hard thing to say, but I have to say it because not only do I care about you as a person, I care about you in the role at this group. And so I have some feedback or I have something I need to bring up, or I've got, we need to talk about this thing that happened. I want this to work out well. It's not, it's not going to, if we don't give it some attention and figure out what is going on.

It might be something like that. Boom. Pretty straightforward, pretty easy.

I think the reality is that hard conversations are just hard. It's just, uh, I hate to just keep saying the same thing over and over, but it's like, well, fuck, I mean, that's just it. Like regardless of how you start something, you have very little control over how the other person receives it, and you can try your damnedest to make sure that you're saying it in a way that will likely land well, but you cannot ensure that that happens.

So. I feel like that's important to say that regardless of what you do, you could do everything right and it still might not go well. I would say it is our job to do as much right as possible, as much as we can. We absolutely should put a lot of effort and intention and energy into approaching conversations with care for the other person, care for the conversation itself, consideration for how somebody might respond or how they might feel.

And we have little control over how it might go.

So let me just recap the, the helpful language for the start. The one we've covered so far is just saying, this is, you know, to Joe, this is hard to say. I am saying it because I care, et cetera. And, um, I wanna provide some feedback or whatever it is that you might want to, however you might wanna segue into the actual content.

Second example. Very straightforward. Hey, Joe, I've noticed something lately and I, I wanna bring it up before it keeps building or before it intensifies or before it ramps up. Boom. Easy, super easy to do. I've noticed this thing. I've noticed a thing. Let's just name it like, let me just put it on the table here. Here's what it is. Like, let's talk, then go from there.

A third way you could start a hard conversation is, Hey, can we have a quick conversation about something that has been bouncing around in my head, something I've been gnawing on, something I've been sitting on. For me, I think about things percolating.

It's almost like they live in my head and I don't, I'm not consciously thinking about them all the time, but they're like, they're percolating. It's back here somewhere. My mind is grappling with it, even if I'm not consciously aware of it. That's another way you could do it. Can we have a quick conversation about something I've been sitting on that's been percolating that's been like weighing on me?

You know, sometimes what I will say, also, I don't necessarily recommend this with everybody, but maybe with, um, somebody, you know, that you have a really solid conver, I'm sorry, a really solid relationship with a really solid working relationship. You work in, let's just say relatively close proximity with them.

I would say something like, something is off and I can't figure out what it is. And then I might say, I just know like, this is how things have been feeling for me. This is what I, I'm thinking or how I'm feeling about, uh, this general kind of concept, but I can't make rhyme a reason of it. I wanna know, I wanna know your take. Like what are you thinking? How are you feeling about the same topic?

And then together it almost becomes this collaborative discussion about something that's going on or potentially wrong. And then you're figuring it out together. Anytime that I can do something collaboratively, I, I want to, I'm just, I'm not very top down in how I operate. I, I don't like to force people or coerce people to do things. I would rather it be a discussion and then we have parameters and then people can decide from there if they wanna be a part of it or not. I'm not going to force people to, I just can't, like, I just, I don't have it in me.

I don't have the staying power, honestly. I've got staying power for other things, but like controlling others is just, ugh, not it. So those are a few options in terms of helpful language for the start of a conversation.

Two more agenda items and then some action steps. So next we have in the moment holding language.

So what does this mean? This basically means as you're having this hard discussion, which is gonna be difficult for the other party probably, and for you. So it's, it's the, in the middle of that discussion, holding that space, so to speak. That's what we say in therapy is holding space. It doesn't mean fixing or solving, it just means like, almost like identifying something that's in the room that's living. It's like naming the elephant in some ways.

So one of my favorite things is to say, can we just, let's just hang on for a second. Like, how, how are we doing? Like how are we doing? What are you understanding? How are you understanding what I'm saying? Here's what I think is happening right now. Where are you?

It's literally an in the moment, what's going on right now? Like, whoop. So there's like a content check-in, which is quite literally what are you understanding about this conversation so far? And then from there you can inform, you can use that feedback to inform the next part of your conversations or the next part of the discussion.

Because it might be that they say something and you're like, oh gosh, okay, I went too far this way. I need to zag back a little bit. You know? Or it might be something where they're like, so like emotionally laden that you realize, oh man, okay, we need to bring this down and get back a little bit to the content because the emotionality is too much to, it's like, uh, overtaking the content, so to speak.

So I really like even a quarter point check-in, but at least a midway check-in at the, at the very, very most, some sort of in the middle of this discussion, what's up? Like, how are you doing? What are you thinking? How are you hearing this? What's landing for you? What do you feel confused about? Anything to get a feel for what's going on for that other person.

Another option is same vein, slightly different feel. This is the option.

Let's pause if this is too tense, I absolutely care about how you are doing in this discussion. My goal is not to waterboard you or shove you over a cliff, metaphorically. Gosh, for real, metaphorically. I wanna make sure you're good during this conversation so that we can continue sort of walking as much side by side as possible.

Boom. Easy. It gives people the option to say, I absolutely feel like I can't take anything more in. And you might say, okay, let's both sleep on this tonight. We'll come back tomorrow and finish it up easy.

Something that feels really important in all of this. As an aside, a very related aside, I think that people, I don't actually know if this is true, my sense, more often than not is that people think that by checking in or seeing how the other person is feeling or making sure they're understanding like by slowing down the conversation or by trying to tend to the other person, that they are then responsible or they are required then to cede their point or they're required to give in.

No, you know, I have to get my point across. It's a hard conversation. I have to get my point across. Yeah, sure. And also you can still hear where the other person is coming from. Like if I'm having a conversation with Joe, I still give a fuck about what he thinks and how he feels, and I want to try to take him into consideration.

The outcome might be the exact same as it would have been without him being taken into consideration, but the reality is I'm tending to him as well in all of this. And so the message is, it's about safety and care in the midst of something that is not very pleasant or fun. And if the outcome has to be the exact same, then it just has to be the exact same.

So for example, if I, I dunno if I should get into example, but lemme just give a quick one. I mean, let's do something like if I switched from having contracted employees to 10 99s over to having W2 employees. The reality might be that I am doing this no matter what. That is the reality.

I have to make this decision for the longevity, the sustainability, the safety of the practice, which of course then impacts everybody. And personally for my own, the way I'm operating, for my own peace of mind, and to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong in the eyes of the IRS. I'm not trying to, oh God, I'm not trying to fuck that up at all. So this has to happen.

In that process though from moving people over and not giving them an option, which I do not love to do. I don't like taking away people's agency or autonomy I might say to everybody, which is honestly what I did. This is years and years ago.

I'm gonna meet with each of you individually. This is the decision that I have made. I have to do this thing. I am going to explain it to you all, which I did, and I'm gonna meet with you individually to talk about any questions or comments or concerns you have, and also figure out what feels most important for you in this transition.

That's what we did. And so when Joe comes in and I say, Hey, Joe, tell me how you feel. How do you feel about this? This, this sucks. I know it's really hard for you. I know it. I know it changes things for you. I wanna, I wanna know what's going on for you, and he shares with me.

To me, it feels important that he is sharing with me, and if I can do something to help alleviate his discomfort or his frustration, or to try to meet something that feels important to him and hold true to the integrity of the business and ensure that the practice is stable and sustainable.

I'm going to try to do that thing. And the reality is that the switch from 10 99 to W2 still takes place. I'm not gonna get defensive that he has feelings about it. We don't need to do that. It's gonna happen regardless. So I think it feels important to me to say when you check in with somebody in those holding, in those in the moments like the holding language, you are not giving up your ability to make a decision by asking somebody else what's going on for them. You are allowing them to inform what you decide if you so choose, but more importantly, you are making sure that they have space and thus they feel and ideally respected, seen, valued, validated, cared for by you, period. That's why it's important.

Okay, let's move on. Last agenda item, sort of. Ending with clarity. So when we're ending these hard conversations, what does this look like? This is honestly just you have to identify a takeaway. I mean, that's like the long and short version is what's the thing that needs to be done, if anything.

It might be, this is just a conversation that we had. Maybe it's some sort of warning. Maybe it's some sort of, I don't know, something coming down the pike or it needs to be a. Specific like this has to change moving forward. So you might say that that would be one way that I would sort of script that I would use would be something like, okay, so I think we're on the same page.

My understanding of what needs to change moving forward is X. I lied, on accident. I would actually ask them first what their understanding was. I always wanna start with the other person. So I would say, tell me how you understand what shift you need to make moving forward. Like what's your takeaway from today?

What do you need to start doing like now? And then I would follow up with, yeah. Cool. Perfect. Yes. And also, or that's exactly what I was thinking. We're on the same page, so that's one thing.

Second thing, a second way, you can end this with clarity. You could say something like, what do you need from me? Like, how can I support you with this?

Because it, if it's something cultural, for example, it might not be this very specific behavior. It might be that you want them to stop doing something that is clearly not in alignment with your values. So it could be where you say, this might be hard. I know you have a lot of shit going on right now in life.

What do you need from me? Like, how can I help you with this in this transition to this process? Could be something as simple as that.

A third piece, the third thing you can do, which is very simple, is just schedule a check-in. You might say, okay. I don't know if there's any takeaways from today. This conversation felt important to have, hopefully for the other person it did too.

And you might say, can we just, let's just check back in. Let's, I'll put it, I'll get us on the books, you know, two weeks out. Let's just check back in and see how things are going from there. Boom. Super easy to do.

I am not gonna do that one for the record. That's never, I have people love meetings. Uh, nope. I do not love meetings. I like when I'm in them. I like really functional, efficient, well run meetings, but I'm not gonna have them just to have them.

Okay. Let's do a couple action steps. You have two options. I'll give you two options for action steps.

One is. Pick the one hard thing you've been avoiding. So this is where there's nuance. There's, we're going to have split off. So one hard thing you've been avoiding split off number one is that you could just stop right there, but I want you to ask yourself, why has this been so difficult for me to approach, period, or I guess question mark technically? Why has this been difficult for me to approach?

That's it. Easy. The second option, so again, we're pick one hard thing you've been avoiding option one. Why has this been hard to approach? Option two, choose an opening script and then send a message to schedule a conversation. In whatever order, maybe you just schedule the conversation period, and then you choose your script after. Choose something, get that conversation scheduled, and then have it boom, easy.

Easy peasy. It'd be easier said than done, but I think easy peasy.

And there we have it folks. You have beared with me. Would it be beared with me? You have born with me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that you have born with me. Alright. This is all the shit you already know, all the shit that I love talking about and honestly, all the stuff that we really break down in the Culture Focused Practice Membership.

So I think you already know, but I'll tell you anyway. Go to www.taravossenkemper.com, work with me, culture focused practice membership. Boom. Catch me in there. You get me twice a month. Live q and a live training, bunch of resources in the portal. All of the previous recorded stuff in the portal, and of course a private Facebook group, so please join me in there.

Second thing. Subscribe to the podcast. So this is, I already, you already know a miniseries, but also make sure you subscribe. You can binge listen to whatever episodes, you can stay up on anything coming out and, and you can send me questions that you have. I would love to speak to things- I love getting at people's specific questions and issues and concerns.

So man, it's been great seeing you here. I hope this is helpful. Um, again, this is episode two. We have another episode and then a lab for the next two episodes for this mini series, and I will see you on the Flippity flip. Thanks for making this awesome. Bye.