Culture Focused Practice

 Hey. Hey, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper here. Welcome back to the Culture Focus Practice podcast. I love that you're here. I love that you're listening. I hope you are getting a lot from this. And if not, shoot me an email and let me know and I will tweak some of what I'm doing, or you're just really in the wrong place and go find another podcast. So you know, TBD.

Today we are starting another series. So I did my first series last week on burnout and I thoroughly enjoyed breaking down a concept a little more and you know, in a three part series. So I'm gonna do the same thing with culture, which is favorite thing I love. I love, love, love talking about culture.

So the series itself is the cult, excuse me, the culture isn't really what you think series, what really shapes your team's experience. The focus of this series is why quote, good vibes, end quote, and team building aren't enough to build a strong culture. I can't wait to get into this. This is episode one of the three part series.

Episode one is Culture is What You Allow, how to Identify and Address Unspoken Problems. I don't know if you want me, I'll go ahead quickly. Episode two is the Energy Audit, and episode three is Culture-Driven Leadership. So we'll talk about those more when they're live, you know, I'm not gonna talk about them a lot right now.

Let's just dive into it. Culture is not just what you say, period. It's also what you tolerate, what you allow, what you tolerate, what you hold accountable, how you hold it accountable. It's not just what you say, it's really where rubber meets road for the group practice. And owners a lot of time think that they're the ones who are setting the tone for the entire practice culture.

But realistically, it's also, and I would say primarily it's formed in that space between leadership actions and honestly employee interactions, team interactions with each other. But there is a, there is a trickle down thing. There is a top down scenario here where the ownership can set the tone and expectations, but the reality is that they're not going to be the one who ensures the formation of the culture or the cultivation or the maintenance of it. They can't, you can't be that person in all places at all time. So that's why I say it's also, and probably primarily, again, I'm using that word formed in the, almost think about like the synapses, you know, like between the, between neurons, whenever they're firing and like sucking up the neurotransmitters on the other side where they get cleaved and re-uptake and all that.

It's not- that space between, that's where culture comes to life, and that's between leadership actions and also, again, it's between employee interactions.

Another key thing about culture not being just what you say, this is kind of like a nested point. It's not like the main thing, you know, but it, it to me is important.

When we talk about like problems that a group practice, I think what a lot of people fall prey to is saying that it's a person. A problem isn't typically from a bad person or from bad people or about a bad, bad person. I would contend that problems are primarily going to be from leadership not being clear or consistent with their team.

And so if you're thinking in your head, well, yeah, but I always have that one employee who does blah, blah, blah, X, y, Z. He never does this thing on time, or she's always late, or they never do this. Got it. So has the expectation about what you want them to do been set and has it been set and said, communicated with them clearly, and then if so, that might be on you if you're not being consistent with the outcome of them not meeting the expectation.

So that's where that consistency piece comes into play, which is also about accountability and outcomes, you know, boundaries around certain behaviors or lack thereof, so to speak.

So before I keep going, I do wanna ask that you subscribe to the podcast. Not only will be, will you be able to follow this three part series about culture. Also, you'll be in tune with any other podcast episodes. Go live. So I think I'm on a variety of places. I don't know Spotify, apple Podcasts on my website. Just search culture focus practice. You'll find me somewhere.

Let's define culture. I. Kind of kind of define culture. We're gonna define a little bit of culture.

We're gonna talk about what people think culture is versus what it actually is. I'm not gonna use a def a dictionary type definition. That's not really what I meant by define.

So when we're talking about culture, a lot of people assume that culture is about team building events and having a mission statement, and you state it boldly and like that's culture.

No, not really. You know, like, yeah, sure, those things are part of it, but those things in and of themselves are not enough to heavily or influence culture, I would say almost at all. They're just, if you don't have a healthy culture and then you do a team building event, honestly, it might feel, um, what's the word I'm looking for, kind of like a joke to the employees and slash or it's just a blip on the radar. Like, oh, cool, okay, thanks. And then they move on with their day.

Culture really is shaped by day-to-day interactions. I love this. They talk about this in couples therapy too. Couples research, I should say, especially Gottman research, the nuts and bolts of interactions, like the day-to-day stuff, that's where the relationship really lives.

It's like in these, in these almost seemingly minuscule like microscopic interactions that we have with one another. I would generalize that sort of thought process to any relationship, like I don't care if this is about partnership, any healthy relationship is built on, we call it turning towards versus turning the way you're turning against, and the ratio of positive to negative within that sort of, uh, concept has to be a certain percentage. So just, I'm not gonna get into all the details, but know that that general concept can be applied outside of intimate partnership. And so, in a work relationship in any sort of employee, boss or colleague to colleague or owner, to, you know, staff, any sort of relationship within the business, within the practice. It's the day-to-day interactions that matter the most.

So not these broad sweeping gestures of you guys are great, everybody's awesome. I'm gonna show you one day out of the year. Don't waste your money or your time, honestly, do it day to day.

So think about how are your conflicts handled? What feedback is given? How is feedback given? How is it received, especially from leadership, super important. How is it received? What behavior is allowed versus not? And how is that handled? What is celebrated publicly? What is chastised publicly? Hopefully nothing, dear Lord, but privately, what are the things that take place on a day-to-day basis?

That feed back into your culture. Be in a safe and growth oriented place somewhere that people can show up, work hard, be themselves, and walk away, ideally a better person. Maybe that's a, sounds like a big call or a, a big ask. I don't think it is. I think if all of our interactions, if we're engaging with people on every single day and we're spending a lot of time engaging with the work that we do, engaging with the people who are at work, why would we not assume that those interactions can influence us to be better people overall?

And I don't think better has to necessarily line up with, you know, I, I'm, I, I'm wary of saying that because what I'm not trying to do is say, use this against your employees. Like, well, you should be a better person by listening to what I say. That's not what I mean. What I do mean is that if I'm trying to live my life and if I'm an employee or leadership or the owner and I'm trying to live my life and sort of become a better version of myself, which I hope is that, you know, that's, I hope that that is most people's goal in life, or at least one of their goals for themselves in life.

Then why would my engagement at work not influence that? So if I can learn to engage in conflict and handle it well, if I can either give feedback well or receive it well, all of these things can generalize to me in the rest of my life. And ideally, I'm also growing as a human in living out and feeding into the culture of the group practice.

They're a one and the same to me. And again, I'm not trying to say everybody should treat this as their be all, end all, because that's not what I mean. What I am trying to say is that any sort of domain that we exist in, what we glean from it, how we grow, can influence us in other areas of our life. I love that.

I mean, that's just so incredible to think that that's how it, it's microcosmic, you know, it's the same on every single level. It across domains or you know, internally versus externally. Internally how we, um, self-reflect, for example, and externally meaning how we show up with others or in the world. So.

Okay, so one other piece about kind of defining culture. Something that I. I don't know if people think about this or not, but what the fuck ever it feels worth it to talk about. Unspoken rules and unwritten rules, form and shape team dynamics.

We always, of course there are rules if you own a group practice, if you're leadership at a group practice, if you're responsible for any other human at all, there's going to be some rules that are set, whether they're policy based or, who knows, whatever they're based on doesn't really matter. My point is everybody has something sort of quote, official end quote in writing, and then we have things that are actual and like literally play out.

The goal is that these things are, you know, almost directly in alignment with one another. If you're a little off kilter fine. I think there's room for error. Sort of like when you're doing research, you assume there's some margin of error. But if it's like, you know, 75% off for what's actual versus what the quote official end quote culture is, that's a problem. That's like a major problem.

So for example, if there's a culture of, you know, we expect everyone to be five minutes on time to meetings. First of all, I would never do that 'cause I could not, I couldn't make that happen. Second of all. If that is your culture, cool. But if there's a clinician who is just always late, but nothing ever happens and they just stay late, the unspoken rule is what? Nothing matters. Timeliness doesn't actually matter. They say this, but nobody follows through. This person is always late and it doesn't matter. That's a really like, simple example, and you might think, well, I, I wonder how this happens at my own practice.

That's a great question. You should probably ask your team whether directly like meaning one-on-one or like as a whole. Maybe you send out a mass email or you wait until the next meeting and you have a group discussion. Ask the question, what are the unspoken or unwritten rules about being here? We know everything in writing. We are aware of all the things that are in writing for the practice, but what are the unspoken things that maybe we're not as privy to?

What are the unwritten rules that play out and, and do those unwritten rules or unspoken rules align with the written ones or are they way off center? If they're way off, then now we're pointing to like a culture related issue. And from there who knows what direction that goes into. I can't say 'cause I don't know your situation, but I.

It's interesting. That's an interesting question that would give you some feedback about something that maybe you don't know at this point. Also that just so reminds me of Virginia Satir doing conjoint family therapy. I don't remember if it was in her book, the Art of People making or the new people making something like that.

She was too busy doing therapy to write and so she has so few books, but she was such an incredible therapist. Like to watch her do work is just, man, it's pretty. It's pretty amazing. She was very, very good. I think in one of her books though, or maybe in one of the, um, videos that I remember watching of her, that was the question is like, what are the unspoken rules? Or what are the unwritten rules? And I remember thinking, oh my God, that is so brilliant. Of course, there are unwritten rules in any, in any system period, there's gonna be unwritten rules. So how do we take that concept, that notion and apply it to our practice?

Really great question, and it'd be even interesting if you wanna take that further. You might do it based on person. So what are unwritten rules with leadership or unspoken rules with leadership or with client care or with billing that you know? What are the unspoken or unwritten rules with each of these departments? Or maybe with specific people you could get as like gran, granular, granular, as detailed as you wanted with any of those, you know, with that question.

Or just keep it as vague and broad as you wanted. And of course, no wrong answers because fuck, it's not in writing like, it's not like what, whatever people say to you, it's like knowledge. It's good to know like, oh, awesome. Thanks for sharing that with me. I did not know that was an unspoken rule. Good to know.

So I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna keep going now 'cause I'm talking about these two pieces for longer than I intended to. Again, sort of this defining culture where what we think, what people think culture is versus what it actually is. And then people thinking about culture is like broad brush, broad brush events. You know, like, I'm gonna house this barbecue once a year. It's gonna be incredible. It might be sure. But also culture is really those day-to-day moments about handling conflict, engaging with each other, giving and receiving feedback, allowing behavior to exist or not saying, Hey, that's actually a problem. We don't do that here. And then also thinking about how unspoken rules really shape team dynamics. So that is something I would, that's the one that I'm like, oh, I really want you to ask that question to your team. I really want you go to them and say, okay, what are the unspoken or read and rules about being here?

Man, you could get a lot of good information there.

So let's talk about identifying and addressing culture related problems. We need to identify subtle culture issues before they become major problems. That's one thing. So you think, oh my God, Tara, how do I do that? Man, thank you for asking.

There's a few red flag moments, a few red flags we could talk about. So one is just inconsistent accountability. If you hold somebody to a policy over here, but not over here, but sometimes here, but not over there, like if you're not holding people accountable consistently, it's a little bit like that's a subtle culture issue. It's probably gonna, it's probably gonna snowball. It's probably gonna get bigger.

If you engage in any sort of favoritism, I don't know how to say this other than I really need you to like your people equally. I really need you to like them equally, and your leadership needs to like your people equally.

I'm not saying every single person is gonna be best friends, but I am saying that it is not fair to the people who work with us that we treat one person with clear favoritism versus another. Favoritism for the record is not related to how well a person performs or doesn't. If somebody is good at a job or good at a role, I might celebrate that publicly, and the proof is in the pudding- they're very good at this thing. If another party, for example, says, well, you are, they're your favorite person, I might say, um. Well, I might ask actually for more details, like, what do you mean? Tell me about what, you know, tell me what, what, what are you talking about? Gimme more details, et cetera. And they say something like you're always talking about how good they're doing.

I might say, oh, I see. I do celebrate them a lot publicly because they perform really well in their role. I will work harder to ensure that I am actively seeking. Ways seeking out to see ways that other people are performing well. And it might be, and again, if I was in this role, I might say this, I see some people in their role more than I do others, I personally do.

And I think any leadership member of the practice, and frankly anybody on the team is going to see certain people more than others. So that's something to keep in mind. If you're trying to like celebrate publicly, be mindful of how you're doing it. Like who you are celebrating a lot and potentially you try to embed something into what you're doing where you are soliciting like public shout out from others or encouraging others to share with the team.

Like, what are you noticing that somebody else has done awesome? You know, something like that, you know? So be mindful of favoritism if you are like, I don't really like this person. I, I, to me that's an issue. It. That presents a lot of different issues, but I, I'll just say, let me, let me hold that for a different podcast. It's a different conversation, but what I will say is be mindful of favoritism. That is going to create some, it's gonna create problems. It's a subtle cultural issue that will create some problems. If you see it in leadership, they're acting that out as well. I would, I would encourage you to address that and again, just be very aware that this is a thing that can happen.

Another subtle. I do not think this next one is subtle, but I'm gonna include it on this list. 'cause for some people it can feel subtle to me. It's like a giant metaphorical slap in the face that fills me with rage, just instantaneously- passive aggressive communication. I don't do it. I don't like it. I don't tolerate it. I fucking hate it. In fact, I do not like it. It is a lot of things I don't like. So for some people, they give a lot of space for this. I do not give a lot of space. It is coded as contempt in my world, and that is a very corrosive behavior in any sort of relationship. So. Passive aggressive communication, again, could be subtle.

You're sort of like, is that what, what do they mean they, what am I gonna do about this? You're sort of like wondering like, wait, what need to be addressed? So that is a, again, a very, very like can be sly cultural issue that can shift into a much more major problem.

One more is almost like a defeatist attitude. Like, yeah, that's just how it is. Sort of like that attitude. That's just how it is. It's just the way that it goes. I'm saying defeatist, potentially, not cynical, but probably defeatist, which is like, to me that reads, I don't have any ability to change this. I've just given up on trying.

That's a, that's a culture issue. That's so if you're picking up on passive aggressiveness or inconsistent accountability. If you're seeing this like defeatist sort of attitude, like, ugh, not worth it, it's not worth it to speak up, or like favoritism. Those are, those are subtle. They, I'm gonna say they start subtle, they can start subtle, cultural issues and they can become very major problems.

Here's some questions to ask, so. This ties in a little bit with how to start diagnosing your culture, but I'm, I'm gonna say if you, if you're noticing these, these cultural issues, these sort of subtle things, ask these questions and I, I would say to yourself to start, and I might actually pose these to the group 'cause I, I'm a, I'm a glutton for feedback. I really like hearing from others.

So one is, do people feel safe speaking up? Um, are they safe? Are they comfortable? Are they able to come forward and speak up? Is negativity contagious? That's, I think an internal question, but also I would still ask that to others. Hint, yes, it absolutely is. So it's not a matter of if it spreads, it's a matter of when and how it will spread.

Are there double standards? Really important, I would say, again, to reflect on, but also to ask from your team. 'cause if they're saying yes, that's a big fucking deal. Even if you don't think so, if everybody is telling arou around you, or multiple people are saying like, yeah, it kind of seems like it. That's a problem that you need to fix.

How am I holding some people accountable versus not others? Am I clear and consistent in how I communicate? And this, I would say those two questions are more for leadership, more for you to think about. And then again, I think you need to like your people. The question for me is, do I feel fondly of every person here?

Do I like the people that I'm surrounded by? Why or why not? The caveat to this question, here's what's important, maybe everything is important, I don't know, but here to me is what's important. You have to make sure that your own shit, like your own internal stuff is contained when you answer that question, because people are gonna trigger you. I, it's just, it's. You can't live in a world without triggering others and them triggering you. And it just, it just is what it is. That just, that is what happens. So you need to be aware. You specifically you, you who are listening, who is listening, use, use, who are listening, or you who is listening. Both of those can work, right?

Whoever is listening, Jesus, Tara, get to the point. Do I feel fondly of every person here? Why or why not? The caveat to that is that you, I would really encourage you to be aware of what your own stuff is related to each person. So I know there are people at my business, at my practice, I absolutely feel fond of, and I have stuff that comes up that's my own, it's from my own history that's not related to them.

Maybe. They remind me of somebody and it like pokes at stuff that's mine to own. It's not necessarily, they are not the problem. It's my own stuff that's getting in the way. There's a, gosh, what's his name? Self of the therapist. Oh. I'm gonna just, I can't remember what his name is. There's a concept in therapy, you know, we call it self of the therapist. Basically. You can't remove yourself from any therapeutic encounter like you are. Sure. Some people say you can be a blank slate. I you can't like. Aponte, boom. Harry Aponte or Henry Aponte, I can't remember. Regardless, he references using self a therapist. So what's coming up for you related to this person?

And sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's neutral and sometimes it's negative. And so that, that stuff, making sure that you can see what it is and then kind of set it to the side so you can try to engage is clearly as possible. Like by clear, I mean, uh, sort of as cleanly as possible without letting that stuff, quote unquote stuff, stuff, excuse me, influence you heavily.

So. Let's keep going, shall we? How to start diagnosing your culture. So I think those questions, the ones I just posed, are really like questions you could reflect on, questions you could ask of your team, which I would love. If you wanna start diagnosing your culture, here's some key things to do. One is to start observing behaviors, whether in staff meetings or in one-to-ones or in daily interactions.

Just, you know, like you do at an airport, like you sit and you watch people- hopefully with no judgment. I love watching people not to judge them. I don't give a fuck about that. I'd wanna like. I wanna just see them. I like being a sort of a fly on the wall. I like witnessing the way people engage and interact with each other.

Do that, start doing that at your staff meetings, at your one-to-ones if you, it's a little bit harder to one-to-one, but you can do it. And then also with daily interactions, start paying attention to what people maybe aren't, aren't saying, pay more attention to the way they are saying things, the tone that they're using, the language they're using, the implication of something that they may have said or what's left unsaid? Their body language, their face, their, you know, stress around their eyes or their shoulder hunched. Can you see their pupils change in size? Are they breathing fast? Are you noticing sweat? Is their voice raising or do they get real quiet, or is their foot shaking hella fast? I mean, there's so many things you can pay attention to.

Just start to notice, start to look at people as you're interacting with them. So it requires you a little bit to get outta your own head and. Try to tune more in with them, which is a good practice. And also if you can see behaviors in staff meetings and in these one-to-ones and these daily interactions.

Ideally, you can also start to pick up on some of the tone of the team as outside of them telling you directly. So that's one thing. A second thing to start diagnosing is to ask key questions. I love, I think I already said I really like feedback. Oh, I think I said I'm a glutton for feedback. I love it. It really, for me, I feel like a bat and a cave. It's the echolocation piece. I really like feedback because it what I think is happening. How do I know if it's right or not, how do I, if I'm trying to disprove, disprove what I think, whether it's good or bad, I cannot do that in a silo. I cannot do that by myself.

So asking key questions, you might say, what's your number one source of frustration with the practice right now, with the leadership team, with your colleagues? What is the first thing related to culture that you picked up on to a new hire, you might ask them that. What's the first thing that you felt frustrated by as you started interacting with our system, with systems, with our team, with our leadership team, with, you know, you could ask so many sort of core questions about, specifically for me, the questions would be around the frustrations or- Great question, what has been left unsaid so far, or, again, we go to those like unspoken rules. What are the unspoken rules? What are the things that we know to do that nobody says or not to do that nobody says, excuse me.

I would also say another way to start diagnosing this is really trying to pay attention to what people complain about behind closed doors.

This is harder to do when you are the owner of the practice. People don't say shit to me in the way that they used to. I'm less available than I was and I have so many key people in place. I absolutely still get people engaging with me and sharing stuff with me, but the extent to which that happens as a product of the structure that we have in place is just less.

So it kind of sucks, but also. You still pick up on stuff. So if I stay engaged with my leadership team on a consistent basis, I'd absolutely hear from them about stuff that's being said behind the behind the scenes, so to speak. If I am noticing themes, if I'm noticing patterns, if I'm noticing anything, that it's just more than one person speaking up about whatever the thing is.

I'm investigating, like I'm gonna dig a little bit further. I might go directly to those people. I might do something broader, like some sort of big poll. I might, who knows what I'll do. It just depends on what it is. But my point is that is time for me to dig into, dig into this a little bit more. Excuse me.

Another thing, again, I told y'all like feedback. I would do a formal assessment. So I would, you could do this so many different ways. You could do it anonymous or optional or anonymous. As an option, excuse me, anonymous as an option. You could do it mandatory like it's required, or maybe it's just optional.

You could do it quantitative where you're making them, you know, um, a one to seven scale. You could do it qualitative where you're asking them to write an information, ask some questions about the culture of the practice. Again, I could talk a lot about this, but I'm not going to, I'm gonna keep moving, but ultimately ask some questions about the culture of the practice to get a feel for what is happening, how are people feeling, et cetera.

And if anything, if you've never done this before, I would encourage you to do it at least once and then use it as a baseline. You need a baseline. Like if you think something is wrong, but you have no data to, to support, like if there's no data, you've never collected data on the culture of your practice and you think something is wrong and then you go to collect data, you have nothing to compare it to.

It could be that that's has been the norm and maybe you're like, man, these scores suck. They must have dropped. Dropped from what? You don't have anything to compare it to. So if you're thinking, I should really do this, you fucking should. Like do it right now before you feel the need to because you're afraid something is wrong.

So then when you reach that point, or if you reach that point, you finally have something or you at least have something to compare it to. So, ooh. I'm gonna keep going. That is how to start diagnosing your culture, like I said, observing behaviors, asking key questions, paying attention to what people complain about behind closed doors, which you might hear this through the grapevine, that's also fine. And then do some sort of assessment. Do some sort of formal assessment. Formal does not mean expensive. For the record, make a Google form and connect it to a sheet so you can sort of see all the answers in one space. And it's not, you know, you can look at responses on a Google form, but, ugh, I hate to, it's not very pretty. A Google sheet you can organize and filter and you know, make much, much prettier.

Here are some small but immediate steps you can take to reinforce the culture that you actually want.

One is correcting problematic behaviors in real time. We cannot let problem behavior slide, especially when they're done in front of group, but I would also say just in general, don't let problem behavior slide. Because all that does is start to get into the written and unwritten rules, accountability, treating certain people different compared to others. It just starts od at the culture in more, in those more subtle ways and then that ends up being big.

So absolutely don't, absolutely don't let the problem behavior slide in like. Correct them right away. And I don't mean correct, like some harsh correction. I mean, step in and say, Hey, this isn't gonna work. We do this instead. Like, we don't do that thing. We do this thing right here.

Another thing is to actively, and I would say consistently recognize positive cultural behaviors and do it publicly.

Don't do it behind closed doors. If somebody's been awesome, shout it the fuck out. Send a massive email, send a Slack, send a Google Chat, send a, you have intercoms, announce it over the intercom. Whatever it is, do something that is acknowledging a positive cultural behavior. Make it loud. Other people can and should do this too. I love the idea of people, everybody being able to speak up about something they notice that somebody else does.

Another thing is that if you are realizing that you haven't been very fair, that you haven't been consistent about something, formalize that thing, so make a decision about what it is, formalize it. Let people know that you're gonna start doing this quote thing, end quote, better in advance of starting. So don't say I'm doing this today, or I'm doing this, we started this last week and you haven't announced it to anybody. I like to let people know in advance of doing something.

So whatever the decision is, whether it's, um, gosh, I'm trying to think of an example. The time management. Let's stick with the meeting stuff. Someone's late timeliness and meetings. You might say, you, we are not allowing this anymore. There is no more, no more being late for meetings. If, if you are, here's what happens.

And then going from there, formalize that. Formalize the process. Share it with everybody. Let them know that you're going to start moving in that direction aSAP- next week, the beginning of next week, the next meeting, this will kick off. And then you have to reiterate that. So if you've made this change, and I, uh, that's a silly example about reiterating other changes you might need to reiterate.

But this is one where it's like maybe every quarter you're reminding people, Hey. You guys have been great about, or everyone's been great about being on time. Keep it up. I love that we have this new policy in place. It could be that you're reiterating by, like by referencing it, for example, but the other piece is that you have to maintain this fairly, and so if somebody is late, you would need to address that and they would have to, you know, experience the consequences, whatever the consequences were that you said.

Woo. Goodness gracious. So we are wrapping things up because I'm getting tired of talking and I've reached the end of my points. So lemme just recap real quick. You know, we defined culture. We did talk about this notion of unspoken or unwritten rules and kind of needing to. Really needing to pay attention to those.

We also started talking about identifying, addressing culture related problems. So identifying those subtle, subtle cultural issues before they become major problems. Diagnosing your culture, and again, get that baseline if you haven't already, and then taking small but immediate steps to reinforce the culture that you actually want.

That's it. That's it for today. Like I said, next time we're gonna do the energy audit, so this is why some team me members are dragging the whole practice down. And then episode three is culture driven leadership. So what great leaders do differently to build a thriving team.

Between now and then. I have two asks.

One, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. Thank you so much in advanced number two, if you need more support, uh, why is talking so freaking hard? It just is sometimes.

Number two. If you need more support, join me in the Culture Focused Practice Membership. You gimme twice a month live one q and a one live training -user's Choice.

I'll train on anything that is relevant for culture focus practice. We have a private Facebook group where only members are allowed to join and engage, and there's a portal for resources and all of the previous recordings, so you can find that on www.taravossenkemper.com. You can click around on memberships or taravossenkemper.com/culture-focused-practice.

So it has been super great seeing you. I love that you're here. I hope this is helpful and thank you for making this Awesome. I will see you next time. Bye.